Saturday night I met up with ecib, b_b & mk for dinner in Ann Arbor Michigan. It was a fun night and of the many things we discussed, I'd like to bring up two topics and get y'all's take.
1.) American psycho. What do you think the ending of that film means? Is it literal? What's going on? bgood79 I'd be glad to hear your thoughts along with anyone else's.
2.) we spent a good amount of time trying to answer this question. Who is the most influential American music band or group of all time -not individual but group? By influence it means worldwide, influencing the music to come and popular culture etc.
I'll let you know what we came up with after some of you weigh in.
Edit: also, explain why you chose who you did.
Nooo, don't post pictures of yourselves, it ruins the mystique of the whole thing. Perhaps not the most influential group of all time, but my vote goes to the Supremes. These gals were the most successful African American Motown act of the 60s. They had lots of crossover appeal which made them very popular, and that popularity paved the way for Black Soul and R&B acts, who were able to gain audiences both in the states, and overseas. Damn I love that song
The supremes were killer. Some of the best music ever made, in my opinion. Could very easily be one of the most influnpential groups in the US. Worldwide though may be a stretch. In the same vein, I'd suggest The Funk Brothers - have to give some credit to the group that made all these amazing Motown records happen.
It's interesting that a question this broad has resulted in three of us mentioning The Velvet Underground. Not sure what to make of that.
The VU came up often when polling people the other night. Another big contender was Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band.
American Psycho, like most things Brett Easton Ellis, is an exercise in nihilism. The ending voiceover is lifted directly from the book, but abridged. The whole monolog - here there be spoilers - makes it much clearer that it's a lady-or-the-tiger "fuck you" to the reading audience. Most influential american band? Sugarhill Gang. Runner up? The Winstons.
I've never seen American Psycho. 2) The Jackson Five, maybe?
UPDATE: I asked this on Facebook and The Beach Boys are what everybody seems to be agreeing on. They're very influential, but the most influential is the part I'm unsure of.
The Beach Boys were my first inclination too. But, I'm not sure how much they changed what was to come. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan and think their music is really important, I just think other bands/groups may have been more influential both culturally and musically. Wish I could have heard Carl sing this live when he was still around:
I gotta go with Nirvana. Sure they arrived relatively late to the game, but they changed the game (as cliche as it is). You can hear their influence all over modern rock radio today, and they opened up the door for a lot of underground bands to gain more mainstream recognition. What they lack for in originality ( you could argue Pixies, REM, or The Velvet Underground had a big hand in their sound) they make up for in breadth of influence.
That would have been great if you guys polled the restaurant to see what the most influential American music band was. I can't seem to get these 3 bands out of my head when I think of that question: Velvet Underground - The Pixies - Nirvana. And Talking Heads. And The Band. I guess if it's agreed that The Beatles are the most influential band ever, you'd have to go with a Motown band seeing how Motown was a massive influence on them. Paul even said so. As far as American Psycho goes, I'd have to watch it again and read the book, but I always subscribed to the theory that everything actually happened. Think about when and where it takes place: Wall Street, late 80's, booming economy, electronics boom, rise of the superficial yuppie etc. All of Patrick's friends are all the same. Calling each other by the wrong name because it doesn't matter. Human connection is lost. The Real Estate agent just wants to sell the apartment, so she disposes of the bodies. The lawyer probably didn't have dinner with the same 'Paul Allen.' His killings go unnoticed because everybody is wrapped up in themselves. The movie's open for interpretation so obviously anything is possible. I just don't want to think that he's just crazy and it's all in his mind. It cheapens the movie in a way.
I think that is a sound theory. It accounts for everything except for the fact that a police car blows up with a shot of one bullet from a handgun. That makes no sense. Also what about the ATM telling him to feed it a cat? And the best American band or group was a hard one to come up with. There is obviously no right answer, but I think kleinbl00 is going down a similar path that we did. Think about how much hip-hop has influenced popular culture, art, Cinema… Everything. Not just music. ecib & mk came up with NWA and I think it's a good choice. Obviously, groups like the Sugar Hill Gang etc. influenced and NWA, but I think they took it to a new level and think of the individual artists, labels and companies that emerged from that group. Thoughts?
With rap you have to go to patient zero. It makes no more sense to note NWA for creating gangsta rap than it does to note Public Enemy for creating the protest rap that became gangsta rap. It makes no more sense to credit Public Enemy for creating protest rap than it does to note The Fugees for commercializing rap and turning it into white guy music. Patient Zero is the Sugar Hill Gang. Sugar Hill gives you Run DMC which gives you Public Enemy which gives you NWA which gives you the Dre constellation which gives you the Wyclef constellation which gives you all the shit we have today. Back up on Sugar Hill and you're squarely in the realm of disco. There's no good spot to stop because you can trace a line from disco back through surf rock back to Elvis back to jazz and straight through negro spirituals. So you pretty much have to put it at the innovation of the Sugar Hill Gang - rapping. Jeron Lanier argued that rap was the last evolution in popular music, and that everything that came after is just an iteration on a theme. You can point to a few songs and say "that's where rock'n'roll started" and you can point to a few songs and say "that's where jazz started" but rap started with one song by one band. On the flip side, the Amen Break essentially defined electronic music from 1987 to 2008. I'd give it runner-up status simply because the vehicle for that definition wasn't a Winstons album, but Zero G Datafile 1. People don't really understand how ubiquitous that sample was, how many places you could get it, and how many places it showed up.
NWA was more influenced by Gill Scott Heron I'd think from listening to interviews and judging from content and themes. Sugar Hill's influence is definetly there. Gill was heavily influenced by The Last Poets. I'd also say that the producers at Motown had a bigger role than any one act, groups were defined by the sound not the other way around until way late in the Motown legacy.
Hip Hop DEFINITELY influenced a ton outside of music. I watch a channel on youtube that shows thousands of hours of commercials from different years. If you watch say, commercials from 1986, and then watch commercials from 1991, the advertising message is totally Hip-hoppified. It's hilarious. Every company from every industry wanted to rap to you with cool, carefree 'tude.
2) REM - a huge body of outstanding work, a truly original American sound, and extremely influential on the generation of musicians that followed them. Without REM, the alternative rock evolution of the 1990's would surely have been very different.
R.E.M was definitely mentioned the other night. They're a great band and definitely influenced much that followed, to this day. Alt rock pioneers.
Looks like you guys had a good time! 1. I've never seen American Psycho, but I've been meaning to. Maybe this weekend. 2. I'm going to go with The Velvet Underground on this one. Had the Beach Boys as second, but that's incorrect. Jackson 5 for sure. I might post this one and Facebook and see what people have to say about it. Very interesting question when you eliminate individuals.
1. I read american psycho when I was 13. Shellshocked. The movie didn't top it for me. 2. I'll suggest Fleetwood Mac (although I dunno if they qualify as 100% american).