Has Covid changed your understanding of friendship?
I've forgotten to be a friend. I'm sure I know how to be a friend, I just forget to be one. When we went into lockdown on March 17, 2020, I locked down. Aside from my immediate household and my mother and daughter who live elsewhere, I stopped not only seeing others, but pretty much stopped communicating altogether with friends and family outside my circle. In the last many months, I have had Zoom, Skype, or FaceTime communication only once each with three separate friends.
I almost communicate . . . I have even almost responded to various Hubski threads.
I respond, generally, to those who reach out to me (or do I?) -- messages appear and disappear on WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger, text, or other platforms. I think, "I'll answer that later," but one thing leads to another and the other is rarely back to the message I saw somewhere.
Hubski, I'm very curious. Has Covid changed your enacting of friendship?
covid has changed friendship in the sense that i lost all tertiary friends - those friends that you have in one context but not others, work or school or the people you happen to pass by and wave to, and it turns out not much was left my social circle is my boyfriend, my roommate, and my parents with special sister guest star - everything else has been torched
Interesting. I have been in two places since 2007. As such, the onus was on me to visit friends when I was coincident in space and time with them. No I can't come to breakfast I'm a thousand miles away thanks for thinking of me. Yes let's absolutely get together the next time I'm in town. From a friendship perspective, COVID has been more of an extended business trip than anything else - no I can't get together with you because obviously I can't we'll get together when we can. My methods for keeping in touch with people are fundamentally unchanged because the added impediment of COVID is functionally identical to the added impediment of business travel. We have a couple friends in their 60s and 70s who we used to see regularly and we don't now because my wife is a vector and they have compromised health. That sucks. But we did two full hours of Zoom over Thanksgiving which really served to highlight how much we miss them. Frankly, I'm closer to several people now because there's no impetus to get off the phone - we won't talk about this the next time we get together because we can't plan to get together so sure I've got 20 minutes for you to tell me about reselling your house. And frankly, I appear to be a "leading health expert" as far as lots of my acquaintances are concerned so plenty of people call or text me far more often than they used to. Attempting to exist in the Hollywood ecosystem teaches you (often explicitly) to treat your friends transactionally and view each interaction as an opportunity for advancement. It's terrible and mercenary but if you strip away the awfulness you're left with "if you want something out of your friends you need to call your friends" and also teaches you "if you call up your friends without needing anything out of them you move to the head of the line because nobody remembers how to do that anymore." You never regret lunch. Since we can't do lunch right now, you never regret texting. Or just reaching out. Or just answering questions. I appreciate you bringing this up. It's given me a thankfulness for my situation.
What you say about "transactional" relationships is interesting. Since I rarely want anything from anyone and I'm not currently looking for "advancement," my desire for interactions has certainly decreased -- but thinking back to earlier in the fall, I have been called by a former co-teacher several times. She asked for advice, a letter of recommendation, and opinions on the changes in the program. It was transactional, but since she's also a friend, I didn't see it that way. Aware of my lack of reaching out, I wrote someone yesterday. I'll do more today. Like this! I will not let Covid turn me further inwards!!And frankly, I appear to be a "leading health expert"
I read that and I thought, you're a leading everything expert.Since we can't do lunch right now, you never regret texting. Or just reaching out. Or just answering questions.
This is an annoyingly-common mistake. Fundamentally, I enjoy sharing the stuff that I know and strive diligently to STFU about stuff I don't. If you look at relationships slightly askance you'll recognize that they're all transactional. There's a certain dirtiness to the word, though, that also implies they're zero-sum or negative-sum and they're not. I surmised a couple decades ago that friends are people you can obligate because it's those obligations that make a friendship. It was about the time I stopped saying "hey wanna see something" and started saying "hey can I show you something" because it puts the onus of the ask on the asker. What's the phrase? A friend will help you move, a good friend will help you move a body? Graeber argued that the favor economy predated the money economy by thousands of years and is fundamentally healthier for everyone. If you look at it as an economy, the whole purpose is to generate revenue. A bunch of people doing favors for each other create a surplus of favors. A former co-teacher has called you several times to ask for stuff. You welcomed the opportunity to help her out, demonstrate your expertise, accept her accolades and thanks and further cement the bond between you. I say that's "transactional" but also highly desirable, virtuous and the fundamental basis of most of the good stuff in life. I stopped talking to my best friend about a year ago. I have effectively cut him out of my life. It has never been a symmetrical relationship but he demonstrated that the potential positives for interacting with him were really sparse and utterly unpredictable while the potential negatives were a cliff-face of loss. If I think of the betrayal I get angry. If I think of the costs-benefits analysis I dispassionately cut him off. interactions and favors allow both parties to demonstrate "this is why you matter to me." Healthy relationships generate surplus goodwill. What I've noticed is that I'm seldom rebuffed for reaching out, which makes it easier to do. It's still exhausting sometimes but I never regret it.I read that and I thought, you're a leading everything expert.
That's an attitude that I appreciate and what makes the things you do say more reliable. Meanwhile, I went and read the situation with your friend and his wedding. I totally agree that all relationships are transactional in the sense that we should examine whether a friendship makes our lives better or worse and to let go of the ones that make our lives worse -- or, if not let go of them -- not feel trapped in those friendships: understand that we're making a choice to continue. Re two things you wrote: I love the difference between, "hey, wanna see something" and "hey, can I show you something." and this line from the "stopped talking" story: I love both those statements because they show an awareness of the many ways we conduct our transactions and that awareness makes us more in control of our responses to interpersonal difficulties. It's so important, I think, ultimately for happiness. "It" meaning awareness of the impact our transactions have on others and on ourself. Anyway, As I've said on this website before, there are friends who are your friends and friends who are your caseload.I enjoy sharing the stuff that I know and strive diligently to STFU about stuff I don't.
I was in the process of drafting my response, as carefully and concisely as I could, when it boiled over. I was doing the thing that had the least impact for him, not for me. So I called him up . . .
It's the why of the caseload that matters. Maybe ten years ago I started yearning for the chance to talk to fifteen-year-old me. Tell me it was all going to work out, tell me that the problems I was dealing with resolved okay, tell me that despite it all I fuckin' made it. It took me another eight years to realize that every orphan I'd taken under my wing as Reddit/Hubski's Father Confessor wasn't benefiting from my altruism, they were serving as proxies for my teenaged self. Which is not to say they didn't benefit. I doubt these relationships would exist if they weren't mutually beneficial. But the benefit to myself was obscured in a heavy blanket of adolescent fog-of-war. Explaining to others allows you to clarify your ideas for yourself. Tending to others can be a form of self-care. There are probably social workers who aren't emotional basket cases but I haven't met them; ultimately I have an easier time caring for others because their value is self-evident while my own well-being is near zero.
I don't quite understand the last sentence. Do you mean that you have an easier time caring for others when you are feeling shaky about yourself -- because what you are saying to them or helping them with helps strengthen you -- if that's it, then, yes, I see that. I also agree that we do get something out of the friendships that seem like work. On some days, that person might be just the one to get us out on a walk.
I was terrible at staying in touch before COVID. The other day I realized my phone had been on silent for four days. Hadn't noticed. I'm forcing myself to log in to Facebook and post things in the rugby group I own, because the season announcements are coming up this week, training will begin in Feb, and the season starts in March. And I need to be more visible in the group (to help keep it under control) before the traffic goes up again. But every millisecond I am on FB is pure torture and hell. I hate it with a white-hot passion now. And I've completely abandoned my Twitter account... hoping I can ignore it through the rugby season, and I don't need to use it in the coming year to keep abreast of issues that may come up in the FB group. Zoom hangouts are good... for about 30 minutes. Then my social fuel tank is empty and I gotta leave. My dad's cognition and short-term memory are really failing him now, yet I can't spend as much time with him as I want to (and I know I will regret it when he's gone), but the possibility of him dying alone and gasping in a COVID ward is extremely high... so I do what I can to engage with him, when I can, but am on high-alert the whole time we are together, so it is exhausting and little fun. I have friends who live out in the middle of nowhere, who are miles and miles from the nearest town. And I can't think of anything I'd like more than to be in a place like that, with electricity and heat, and no cell/wireless signal. Sounds like heaven to me. I've even considered bailing on Hubski, but if I did that, the only time I'd engage with kleinbl00 any more would be asking him tech questions about writing or synths. :-) I'm not sure getting vaccinated will change that. Because I have also come to realize that I am now a highly-privileged middle-aged white American man, and even when my ideas and suggestions and proposals come from the right place, they are heard differently in today's culture than they were when I was a plucky long-haired metalhead with an insane amount of useful cutting-edge technical knowledge. Now? I'm just a wisp away from being "OK Boomer"ed out of existence. So I find Big Ears, Small (non-existent) Mouth is the only way I can continue to participate in any of the communities or organizations I helped found or develop. Middle-age? Or COVID? Or both...?
You might be implying here that adulthood is somehow different from childhood or teenhood, that when we are adults and more discerning, we might become more profoundly lonely. I am interested in hearing more from you. When have you been less lonely?Adulthood is the time of profound loneliness.
Interestingly, I've been more sociable during and post-lockdown. We would host ZOOM beer sessions, play games with each other and sometimes even stream a movie together on Discord for a laugh. My social circles grew by quite a range thanks to Covid and some of the circles have now intersected. I used to be able to go a full weekend without talking to anyone outside of my partner and perhaps my immediate family via text but now every day I'm talking to people. Can't think of a day in a long while that I haven't at least had a conversation with friends. For whatever reason, my sociability went into overdrive when I realized I wouldn't be able to see people for a long while. The result has been really nice.
My experience has been the same as yours, lil. Back in March I just came back to my country from almost 3 years abroad, and I had plans to go out and do many things with my friends. When the recommended quarantine started, all those plans were put on hold indefinitely. I got to see my friends once or twice in the two weeks we had before quarantine, but that's it. During the pandemic, I have the exact same "online messaging" experience you have. I rarely get messages, but when I do I usually postpone answering them. Maybe because I know there's no way that those people are asking me for something urgent, after all, we can't leave home to do anything anyways. I almost never send messages or reach out to friends, but I think that's because of depression/anxiety/low self-steem, that got worse during the quarantine. Although, I already told some friends not to expect to hear from me, and they seemed fine with it. For now, I keep interactions with my close family (those who live in my house) and girlfriend.
It's been nearly a month, but here we go. Not exactly. Maybe it was a little different for me since I haven’t lived near some of my closest friends for a few years already. We were already used to catching up over the phone or video call. With in-person socializing extremely limited (because I’m now living at home again and don’t want my parents to get sick), I tend to call them more often than I used to, and it feels like each of those conversations are more helpful from an ‘improving my level of happiness’ perspective than they used to be. The friends who were already on the periphery, who I didn't make regular plans with or who I only saw regularly in a specific in-person context, have drifted away. I still hang out with some of my former college roommates in much the same way that we used to, but instead of playing video games in the living room or chatting while making dinner in the kitchen we now play together over the internet and talk then. The differences become apparent in making plans to meet up in person, and the friends with whom I haven’t spoken in a while. In-person plans have mostly dried up. Many of my college friends are now living in other parts of the country. The ones who are here are either also living with their parents or have significant others (meaning their weekends are generally unavailable). I have some friends who are still in college, and I visited them occasionally last year, but with the renewed lockdowns, I haven’t gone back to campus since maybe October. I had plans to visit a friend (via plane) last autumn that I canceled due to work...and now with the new more virulent strain circulating, I’m not sure I’ll be able to see them for a while longer. I doubt the cancellation was really worth it, in the long run. The only solace is that I think (selfishly) I’ll be able to get the vaccine a little sooner, as an essential infrastructure worker. Then there are the re-connections with people I haven’t talked to in a long time. While only over the phone / video, its been nice to rekindle those friendships. I had some hope of being able to reach an old friend of mine who (for reasons that I truly don’t know / haven’t been able to figure out / don’t understand) ghosted me a few years ago, but even a global pandemic had no effect on that, I’m afraid. I’ve basically moved on from that friendship but it’s tough when they show up in your dreams a few times a year and in your dream you’ve reconnected… Covid underscored the distinction in social interaction between family, friends, and co-workers. I’ve always been an introvert, but I don’t think I realized until this whole thing went down the importance to me of the everyday things in friendships—the little moments. And despite (or because?) living at home with family right now, I feel an intense isolation. Has Covid changed your understanding of friendship?
The only difference for me is being more intentional on reaching out to friends. It used to be that I would see a cool event coming up and then I would call someone that I thought would enjoy going and ask them to join me. More importantly, they would call and invite me. Now, there aren't any events to invite people to. Now I have to reach out and just bullshit with them on the phone or video chat. I am not a great at generating conversation so sometimes it is just quick "hey, hope you're well". If they are good at starting conversations, then we might be on the call for an hour or more. I have probably talked more with my mother and sister over text in the last eight months than I have contacted them in the past 20 years total. An even bigger change for me has been with work. A part of my IT job is to support users. In the office I was just downstairs; if someone hit a small glitch, they would call and I would come up and fix this issue/teach them how to fix it themselves.. it would take all of two minutes. Then we would spend the next 10-15 chatting about whatever. It allowed me to build a rapport with new staff as they got settled in. That rapport gave me a pretty good way to keep my finger on the pulse of the organization, which management appreciated as a way to get feedback on changes and needs of the staff. Now, it isn't convenient for staff to get a hold of me and chat. Although, it has forced staff to communicate more openly with the supervisors/managers. But for me, it also means that when staff a struggling they are not getting the help they need from me before things spiral out of control and make a large mess that takes a lot of time and effort to clean up. And that has increased turn over. I have been trying to work with supervisors and managers to be more proactive in monitoring staff and approaching them before it reaches that point.
Yes and no. Our staff is service based, they spend A LOT of time on video calls with clients. The last thing they want is to get on a video call with me to fix a problem. Some have gone so far as to fix their own problems, but most rely on emailing tickets.