I've smoked n,n-DMT several times at varying doses, and the effects described above really vary on a sliding scale from dose to dose. While many hallucinogins offer similar effects, I still note variability between it, LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, and whatever awful active compound is in salvia (salvinorin A, apparently). If I recall correctly, as far as mechanisms/experiences go, the difference really is that Ayahuasca is root bark containing DMT combined with a vine that has a MAO inhibitor, which otherwise degrades n,n,-DMT rather quickly, prolonging the experience. I've heard of a few people taking a MAO inhibitor and smoking it, but only in a "friend of a friend" way. That sounds intense. When doing a larger amount, there is a complete suspension of the self to the degree that applying a taxonomy of symptoms of the effects afterwards feels totally foolhardy, at least to me. Like, the perceptual distortions are not a succinct product of a particular mechanism, so it feels, but more so just complete alien sensory experience that is sort of outside normal description. For instance, yes there is time dilation and calibration abberations, but these are absolutely taking backseat to the fact that you have just exited your body (not literally, as in a out-of-body experience where you are still aware of your physical existence), consciousness and everything you felt at least some degree of comfort inhabiting and are lost in the stratosphere for 15 minutes or so. For me, the best way to describe it is in subjective, descriptive terms, and in comparison to other hallucinogens, as they really are a experience that is only understood by actually doing it.
Out of curiosity, what didn't you like about salvia?
I actually did for a little while, but it is just very grating and intense so it got old really quickly. a couple friends had a really really bad time with it, so I hesitate recommending it to anyone.
It's the only hallucinogen I've ever done (easy to get, convenient if you only have like twenty minutes to spare), so with nothing to compare it to, I just kind of take it as the baseline experience. Did it with my druggie friend one time, though, and he seemed to hold your position. Said it was too intense, swore never to do it again. Funny, because I find it really relaxing. Each their own. Your response makes me wish I'd had the opportunity to try other ones, though. Ayuhuasca is sounding pretty great from this thread...
I pretty much observed 3 general reactions to salvia: 1) nothing. 2) laughing non-stop about nothing for 10 minutes straight 3) actually affecting you in a typical hallucinogen (albeit more harshly than other), ranging from freaking the hell out to calm euphoria If you're still on this earth, you've still got time, just try to aim for reputable sources, though that's easier said than done. However, if you're straight-edge or sober, don't let all this talk lead you astray!
Hah, not straight edge or sober- do have a family, though, which kind of disqualifies me from day-long vision quests. Maybe if at any time I get a weekend with friends or something.
I see, foolish to apply any concepts at all? Beyond concepts? Could you describe them on a continuum of evil/good ; negative/positive? Or is that irrelevant too? Does Alan Watts do justice to the experience in this video?When doing a larger amount, there is a complete suspension of the self to the degree that applying a taxonomy of symptoms of the effects afterwards feels totally foolhardy, at least to me.
For me, the best way to describe it is in subjective, descriptive terms, and in comparison to other hallucinogens, as they really are a experience that is only understood by actually doing it.
| I see, foolish to apply any concepts at all? Beyond concepts? It feels like a constant stream just poring over you with completely unique experiences every second. I could hardly claim any thoughts to be "my own" (I mean, of course, they totally belonged to my mind in some regard) but, like I said, your awareness is just out the window in regards to how you experience your everyday life. There isn't a competent metaphor/analogy/allegory for how your mind is working, so I think that's why a lot of people focus on the direct sensory stuff when describing it. I want to say something like "salvia is totally more negative than DMT, but they are very similar" but honestly, within the spectrum of experience that is contained by ingesting a hallucinogen, salvia was more harsh than DMT, but not necessarily negative. I have to start an assay, but I will watch the video during my lunch break and get back to you.
In that Watts video he describes it as not "hanging" on hang concepts. For example, humans construct many symbols that "define them". But in this realm trying to "conceptualize anything" is like trying to "catch water with a sieve" in his language. And then when you learn not to "hang out any concepts" you are in the "void". And then you have to learn to "void the void"; according to Watts.There isn't a competent metaphor/analogy/allegory for how your mind is working, so I think that's why a lot of people focus on the direct sensory stuff when describing it.
I think that's an accurate description, my personal inclinations are to strip away the woo-woo language that Watts always uses, though. Up to the "voiding the void" part, yeah, that's as accurate as you're going to get without trying it for yourself. There's definitely some burners I know that trip waaaay too often (and it shows), maybe that's what he means by saying "letting go of the void"? Like, not trying to regenerate some sublime experience that is dependent on particular circumstances or something? I dunno, I think if someone is searching around in stuff like DMT, especially since they are so much more well-known nowadays, they're looking for something in general, and hallucinogens offer a vague enough notion that something major has happened in you, not to you. There's also Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley, he experimented with mescaline loooong before it was the pop culture thing it is now and he didn't have much background besides folklore to go on. I read like 10 years ago though, so it may not be as good or thoughful as I remember. 16 year old me says go for it, though!
Yeah, I feel you on the burners who have tripped a bit to often in search of something or an experience. People who've gone that way seem to insist that whatever is happening has some sort of expected script and experience. I think they're the ones being referenced by the idea of being trapped in the experience and not experiencing any further "voiding the void." I don't want to sound like I'm making any definitive claims, but that's the best I can do to articulate it. Like that recent story of the CNN reporter who recently went through an experience. In her story, she mentions the sort of stereotypical super hippie/burner female and how the shamen confided in the reporter that she is unable to make progress because she is insistent on what the experience should be and entail so there is no revelation for her, but illusion. Up to the "voiding the void" part, yeah, that's as accurate as you're going to get without trying it for yourself. There's definitely some burners I know that trip waaaay too often (and it shows), maybe that's what he means by saying "letting go of the void"? Like, not trying to regenerate some sublime experience that is dependent on particular circumstances or something?
Scientific American writer John Hogan suggested this as well - so I may have to add this to the book collection. Thanks for your thoughts, all of these comments are so interesting and thoughtful.There's also Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley