Towards a New Masculinity.
It bugs me that feminism is responsible for 'reinventing masculinity.' Yes I understand that Nu-Feminism is supposed to be for everybody, but it still feels like this article is infantilizing (Non-feminist identifying) men. I am an egalitarian. We're all big boys and girls, and should be responsible for ourselves. Work from a common understanding that real life is not AT ALL CORRELATED TO MEDIA, be it advertising, movies, TV, books, news, anything. Bad people will do bad things and use whatever is convenient to rationalize their behavior.
Is it called the "Not my brother's keeper party"? I think it's a sad worldview that asserts that each of us doesn't bear any responsibility for society being the way it is. We all influence each other, and we all are contributors to the state of the world. We all have a mix of individual and shared responsibilities, IMO. Edit: Don't read this comment with sass. I didn't intend it that way, but then I reread it and realized it could be taken as dismissive. My point, more finely stated, is that just looking at individual responsibility is exactly what leads to the tragedy of the commons; that is, it is possible to act in a way that seems right and good to us as individuals, but ultimately is bad for society. There is value in self reflection and value in societal reflection, and societies operate on a different level from that of an individual, a level that often can't be understood in terms of the behavior of any particular individual.
No… no sass taken. And the brevity of my comment probably merited some sass… :) Sometimes it is better if I don't reply while at work - because I can't fully flesh out my ideas… I would like to see a societal structure that places more emphasis on personal accountability balanced with actions toward the common good. I apologize - I think my original comment took us pretty far afield from the original article, and may be more appropriate for another thread.
When I wrote the big boys, big girls line I was referring to those needs above basics (Food, water, shelter, access to education, etc) like dating, workplace stuff, any time when 'He got his way because he's a boy!' or 'She got her way because she's a girl!' comes up. To use a commonly used metaphor, if I get hammer drunk and sleep with someone I wouldn't otherwise sleep with, under my own volition, it's no ones fault but my own. I think this should be valid for both genders. Now I'm making a distinction between 'Drunk enough I lowered my standards' and 'I was unconscious and someone took sexual advantage of me,' because there IS a distinction, and I think that SOMETIMES in our attempts to be PC, there isn't enough differentiation.
Of course we should care for those around us. Of COURSE we should try to ensure that our neighbors are healthy, happy and on the road to self-actualization. However, we shouldn't in that (Admittedly noble) attempt squash peoples right to make a damn fool of themselves in whatever manner they please.
There is a lot in here, Mitchell. I'm glad you didn't shy away from some of the more complex issues regarding the masculinity or the male ego or whatever you want to call it. This concept is introduced to all of us at a very, very young age and I don't think that men should ever feel bad about thinking / feeling this way. From watching Disney movies, to lyrics in songs (I swear some of the sappy country songs are worse than hardcore rap in this case), to watching adults around you interact - the world all about the powerful man role, the seduction, the flawless women on a pedestal, etc. In addition, you would be hard pressed to find a women who doesn't enjoy the game of seduction / sex / love / companionship on some level. This game, especially if you watch seduction take place from the outside, only strengthens mens' desires to obtain the women and their underlying understanding of how the world works. Call it gender roles or stereotypes or a fault of society - frankly it doesn't matter. This is the world we are in and until we can somehow move above it, violent crimes and rape will occur. Men must come to fully understand and accept that they don't own women or deserve women and begin to look at women on equal ground. It's easy to put down on paper like it's a simple problem with a solution - but it's an insanely deep rabbit hole. There are a myriad of causes and manifestations of these underlying beliefs and so many men - even respectful men and great life partners - still think and act in ways that perpetrate these gender roles. And - what makes it even more complicated - is women still love and respond to these thoughts and actions. How can we expect rape and violence to be eliminated and men to look at women as true equals when so much of both mens' lives and womens' lives revolve around seeking and obtaining sex and love? I honestly don't think we can. We need leave some of the more skewed perceptions that lead to frustration and violence behind us and try to eliminate violence against all humans simply because we are all humans and don't deserve to be hurt. Incidents like the recent events in Isla Vista show how far we still have to go. If we look around society and especially the internet, it's not that shocking that a lonely boy with a surprisingly common view of women and the world can get so fed up that he goes on a shooting rampage. It's horrifying and terrifying - but it's not that shocking. We all need to care about each other way more and realize that the games we play to find, love, fuck, and remain with a spouse have undeniable and unintended consequences at times. We need to acknowledge that men and women are different, power is a big fucking deal for both genders, and have conversations about it to elevate ourselves. Violence - physical, mental, emotion, passive-agressive, all of the above, is an unacceptable way to deal with any emotion. If we can somehow accomplish this, we'll be in a much better place. It should be less about the men, women, feminism, masculinity and make it more about all of us.I was never told explicitly that I am entitled to women’s bodies, but it was communicated to me anyway. Sure, it was in the context of being “man enough,” being “good” to women (often in terms of placing women on the proverbial pedestal), and for a woman, most often expressed in terms of earning potential or physical prowess, but also in other terms of proving my worth. These were ways I would “earn” the exercise of my inherent right to “possess” one or more women.
"Men must come to fully understand and accept that they don't own women or deserve women and begin to look at women on equal ground. " I honestly couldn't tell you how many people I know, who are men, that think they deserve or own women. That whole trope is incredibly mis-identified and incredibly false. There may be some men out there who think they own women. However, there are some men out there, probably even more, that think they deserve to be treated as kings for doing nothing, or think they deserve to steal that guy's car or cut in the lunch line because their time is just way too valuable. The issue here is not men being told that they deserve or own women. The issue is that men are told that the metric and way that they should measure their popularity/success (at least one of the ways) is by being "man enough" to get women to love them. It's not about ownership, it's about desire to that ideal of being successful. Obviously, when someone goes and bases their existence on that, it leads to the side effects that people are, and should be concerned with, the ideal of entitlement. It's combining the "feel good" mindset with the "successful popular jocks driving in a sports car with a bunch of hot girls in the car" that is the real issue. This is why I have had a huge issue with this yesallwomen and similar crap. They aren't actually looking at what I see is the actual issue, and making it seem like most men out there think they are entitled to women. In my experience, they aren't at all. It's desperation to be cool/popular/successful, not entitlement to other human beings, that causes the issues.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OverprotectiveDad this trope you mean? I honestly couldn't tell you how many people I know, who are men, that think they deserve or own women. That whole trope is incredibly mis-identified and incredibly false.
Overprotective dad has nothing to do with ownership. Secondly, it's a trope in the media, it doesn't exactly reflect reality (even if it does happen) And you really want to say that parents being overprotective is an example of men thinking they own women? Nah, has nothing to do with parents being protective in general of their kids getting into bad situations. Which is worse, a daughter getting pregnant, or a son getting someone else pregnant? It's shitty, but in reality, the teenage son will just walk away in many cases. Nah, has nothing to do with the view that daughters need defended Nah, has nothing to do with men being more protective of family. Yep, it is just an example of men thinking they own women. Women are property of men therefore men try to protect them. That must be it!