An actually effective Miranda warning would start with a fanfare. A formalized “here ye, here ye…” Maybe a scroll. It would be explicit. Have terms like “If you talk to me, you will likely say the wrong thing and I will fuck you up, little man. I will very likely take your words and explain to a jury or judge that because of those words, you deserve to die. I have the right to lie to you. I may make you a promise I have no intention of keeping. You may think you can tell me the right thing, but I will still arrest you anyway and let the court sort it out. You have the right to a lawyer, but who knows if it will be a good lawyer, but really, any lawyer is better than no lawyer before you spill your guts because only a lawyer can really get a deal for you and you always get a better deal before you talk than after. Ok, do you want to shut up and get a lawyer now? (Cop pantomimes yes while waiting for a response).”
OK, I have a question. Say I'm being talked to by a police officer because I was at a loud party. Or I was in a car while the driver got pulled over. And I think the cop is a reasonable guy, all he wants is a reason to not arrest me or deal with me at all. Maybe he doesn't like paperwork, maybe because he knows deep down that the real perp is another guy. Part of me wants to reason with him. Should I still never, ever, ever open my mouth to the police? I've seen a presentation on YouTube by a lawyer, the entire premise being "Why You Should Never Ever Talk To The Police," and I still have this lingering feeling that the average cop is just another human being, and human beings can be reasoned with. What if I invoke my right to silence, and because I'm being a hassle, he'll toss me in the paddy wagon, when if I had just said something like, "No, you're talking to the wrong person" he would've just let me go?
A casual conversation is what police use to establish probable cause for a search. Refusing to engage in a casual conversation cannot be used to establish probable cause if you have a decent lawyer. I have told officers that are trying to chat me up that I didn't want to have a casual conversation with the them and they could go about their business. I've had them respond with "cool man" in the best circumstance and harassment in the worst. But what happens in the street isn't what's important, not giving cause for a search or arrest is what helps in court.
They're totally not worth going Miranda over... for whom? The officer? If the officer comes at me with cuffs out, starts reminding me of my right to remain silent, I'll default to shutting my mouth. But what if he just starts.. talking to me? Asking questions about suspicious behavior or possible criminal activity in the area I'm located in. In this scenario, should I just say, "I plead my fifth amendment right to remain silent?"Petty misdemeanors are TOTALLY not worth going Miranda over.
My confusion is that the situations you're describing fall under "routine stop." That's where they say "what are you guys up to?" Your best answer is "not a whole helluva lot, officer, how 'bout yourself?" On the thousand mile journey towards "arrest", this particular pit stop is still back when Funyuns are novel. You're barely through your first tank of gas. "Miranda" is clear across two state lines from you and saying "I invoke my Miranda rights" is the equivalent of saying "I know you just pulled me over to flashlight my footwells for beer cans but I'm going to save you the trouble of actually needing a reason to check my trunk for dead bodies and just go ahead and let you know I've got three dead coeds and a kilo of china white in back." They're totally not worth going Miranda over FOR YOU. Miranda or not isn't a question for the officer - he has to read them to you if he's going to arrest you. Period. And speaking as someone who had any number of run-ins with the law as a teenager (and who had not only picked his sister up from jail with dreary regularity, but actually was appointed legal guardian of one of his friends for a few weeks), the last thing an officer of the law wants is the needless paperwork from an arrest that didn't actually gain them anything. You... have seriously never had a chat with a law officer that started with "where are you kids going?"
Ahh.. I've never made the thousand mile journey to the slammer. I've had a handful of run-ins with the cops, and that's the thing, it's always been a reasonable exchange between me and the police. Yet it's always at a party, in the woods, or in a car. We weren't exactly innocent of any law-breaking, and so I never know what's an arrestable offense or just a citation. Do cops chat with you before they arrest you? I think my confusion stems from the fact that as a clean white boy in Baltimore, a cop has never stopped me and asked me what I'm up to, so I don't really know what a routine stop is. They only talk to me if they're investigating a call, usually a noise complaint for some party, but otherwise they're busy doing lots of other things, including making their presence known by driving around with their lights on.
Here's my experience with cops. The overwhelming majority of the experience of any beat cop is boredom. The daily grind involves very little that really requires them to be cops. Nonetheless, "keeping the peace" is much more interesting than "watching the odometer tick over" and hey - that's the job. Some cops take this opportunity to interact with people. Build rapport. Keep an eye on things while reminding you that the law is your friend. We had a guy in my town who went by Johnny Law. He pulled my buddy over once. No surprise; my buddy was driving a lifted Land Cruiser with 33" mud tires and was having fun driving on the sidewalk. Johnny Law asked my buddy why he was driving on the sidewalk; my buddy foolishly explained that with the new tires, the truck was hard to control. Now - rather than issue my buddy a citation for driving a vehicle he couldn't keep off the damn sidewalk, Johnny Law gave him a look askance and advised him to try harder. Six months later, when Johnny Law arrived on the scene of the citation of my sister and two of my friends for starting a bonfire inside a piece of play equipment at the park, he advised the officer on the scene (Corcoran - or "Cock Ring" - we'll get back to him) that there would be lots of paperwork involved in hauling three minors down to the station for starting what was clearly a completely controlled burn inside a cement pipe in half an acre of sand and that since they would both be doing that paperwork.... hint hint... Cock ring gave me a dirty look when I came to pick up my sister... and my two friends... from the police station ("taken into custody" is not the same thing as "arrested" - I think the "paperwork" angle finally worked) because one of Cock ring's favorite pastimes was following me around. All night. And into the morning. Fucker once tailed me for seven hours, with five of my friends in the van, just waiting for me to give him a reason to pull me over and search the van. I never gave him one. Cock ring also wanted to "keep the peace." His method of interaction was different than Johnny Law's, however, and a lot more of a pain in the ass. Just passing the time for the 99% of the time that the job is pure boredom. It's that other 1% where things get interesting. I have no doubts whatsoever that I would have been shot dead had either of them feared for their lives, and no doubts whatsoever that had I flashed any attitude I would have spent the night in jail (a judge threatened me with that once for observing that "I'm sure it's in here somewhere" is not proper legal procedure when citing someone for a non-existent moving violation). The thing that makes cops cops is their handling of that transition between "sheer boredom" and "sheer terror." Not all cops are good at it. Just ask Oscar Grant. It is in your best interest to keep your interactions well clear of that transition at all times and in all places. Trust me. You'll know when it's in your best interest to shut the fuck up. Even when I had two LAPD damn near break down my door to accuse me of domestic violence at 2am, I had full understanding of the necessity of open dialogue.
I don't have any delusions that I'll teach a cop (or a mugger even) some lesson by baring arrogance or attitude. (I ain't no bitch, but) I can tell that it's not almost never worth it. And I don't know a single cop's name. My stories with the police are run-of-the-mill drunk dumb-ass behavior. Once tried to convince a squad of 6 officers not to shut down a several hundred person party on a farm in southern Maryland because I was a cadet in training with an "Officer Johnson" from Baltimore. Lord, how in the fuck I wasn't arrested just for being that stupid is beyond me. slow-whistle for some of the near misses I've had. I remember an episode from comedian Bill Burr's podcast about how much he's grown since his early twenty and teenage years. He remembers an age when he wouldn't've backed down from anything, not a cop or a loud mouth at a bar, he would've fisticuffed at the drop of the hat (this is how I'm remembering it). But now that he's older, he imagines that if he were at a bar, and some guy was being a total maniac and trying to start something, he would just leave. You never know, what if that guy just murdered his wife and a cop and booked it across state lines and he's stopping for a drink to calm his nerves and you're just the next dude in his way and anything could make him snap. You never know. It's better to default to caution, picking your battles is the sure sign of a wise man.
Dunno, man. I woulda let you slide on that one out of sheer respect for your giant brass balls. "Officer Johnson?" Nice one.Once tried to convince a squad of 6 officers not to shut down a several hundred person party on a farm in southern Maryland because I was a cadet in training with an "Officer Johnson" from Baltimore. Lord, how in the fuck I wasn't arrested just for being that stupid is beyond me. slow-whistle for some of the near misses I've had.