We have all been conditioned to click a button when we like what someone says. An up arrow. A thumbs up. A heart.
So we come to Hubski, and - without thinking - click the little hubwheel to register our positive feelings about a comment.
Which is not the intended purpose of the hubwheel.
The hubwheel is you picking up a lighted arrow and pointing it at a comment and yelling, "HEY EVERYONE! This is something everyone should read!!"
I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago, but making new habits is hard. So I bring this up again.
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Example
See this post:
MK's comment is funny, so 5 people clicked the hubwheel. Which means that now "pics or it didn't happen" is classified as a "valuable post" on hubski. Something that stands on its own, and is a valuable post in and of itself.
I know, this seems like useless pedantry. But it is about creating good data. There is a LOT of really valuable conversation on here, and I was just reading fantastic stuff from 1300+ days ago! But it can get lost in the little things, due to the hubwheel confusion.
Hubski is not Reddit or Facebook or Instagram or Weibo.
It's a different place, with a small number of people, who care, and share meaningfully. Let's treat our data and our tools with respect, and we can keep this community unique and interesting.
Thanks for listening!
If I had a badge, I’d badge this. I am sure I was one of the people that clicked on the wheel by mk’s comment. Why? Because I want to see those pictures. There are many reasons for clicking the wheel. There are no hard and fast rules I subscribe to.
the other day i checked and i had badgers to spare. my literal thought was, "c'mon hubski, throw good content at me! i wanna badge it all!" glad to do it, mate. i do think cgod's is the most perfect response in this thread, for many reasons, including its succinctness. there is much more that could be said. sometimes it is good to choose not to
I noticed a while back that people tend to use the hubwheel to sort of acknowledge the other person/conversation when said conversation is coming to a close. Like a I have nothing left to add here but I want you to know I saw this and I feel like it’s a natural human reaction like nodding or smiling at somebody to acknowledge you did in fact make eye contact instead of just blankly turning away. Considering the community vibe here I think it’s bound to happen in some fashion. I mean, I’ll bet people who clicked that post also agree it’s not a like or upvote button. I think we are conditioned to acknowledge things in general and that goes way back. I don’t know, it’s like we’re just humans trying to connect with people online as we might in the real flesh n’ blood world. You show people you are welcoming of future interactions by acknowledging them with a smile/nod/whatever. I have a habit of picturing everybody in a room together when I read through threads though so maybe I’m over analyzing this.
Having just done this I can agree. This place has meaning to me. I love that I have actual faces and voices to match usernames. (I'm having a little hubski meet up afterglow...)I have a habit of picturing everybody in a room together when I read through threads
This is the meat of it, isn't it? There are two distinct needs, it seems: 1. Acknowledge the good conversation/point, 2. Bring others into the discussion. These two functions are being conflated into a single device, rather than separate actions. "...acknowledge the other person/conversation when said conversation is coming to a close. Like a I have nothing left to add here but I want you to know I saw this and I feel like it’s a natural human reaction like nodding or smiling at somebody..."
I don't think your being a dick at all. It's exactly the kind of comment that I'd have made if I felt like I fully understood the word pedantry. It's a simple emotive statement that puts you on the record and it directly addressed the posters own expression with his own words. I do loath it when I'm told I'm not Hubsking correctly. All that being said I share some of goobster's sentiment on the hubwheel but like I said, it's personal. No right way to Hubski, there are probably some wrong ways but I don't think this is one of them.
You're being a dick. I know you must be going through some tough times right now. Beating an overwhelming, crippling addiction is never easy. You must be tough to do so - and sometimes, being tough also means being coarse. Whatever pain you feel is not a justification for being mean to others - especially in a community like this - especially not to a person trying to remind everybody to be mindful of our pitfalls.
I believe the phrase is, "A dick is worth a thousand words." Analyses of others are actually expressions of our own needs and values. It is important here not to confuse value judgments and moralistic judgments. All of us make value judgments as to the qualities we value in life; for example, we might value honesty, freedom, or peace. Value judgments reflect our beliefs of how life can best be served. - Marshall Rosenberg Other than that, welcome back? I promise, the need for belonging won't be fulfill by opening with a judgement. Analyses as evidence are just as vindictive as the statement. But, if you must indulge, feel free to ignore this comment entirely.You're being a dick.
One kind of life-alienating communication is the use of moralistic judgments that imply wrongness or badness on the part of people who don’t act in harmony with our values. Such judgments are reflected in language: “The problem with you is that you’re too selfish.” “She’s lazy.” “They’re prejudiced.” “It’s inappropriate.” Blame, insults, put-downs, labels, criticism, comparisons, and diagnoses are all forms of judgment.
Frankly, I don't give a damn about the rest. I trust those two will be capable, discerning adults to discuss the content at hand - which is what taco's comment boiled down to - rather than sling shit at one another... or not. What I'm not okay with is seeing a familiar name disappear into the abyss without a heads up only to find out there was a disagreement with similar context. What I'm not okay with is seeing what seems to be the same cycle repeat itself after your extended break.
What I'm not okay with is seeing people care only when shit hits the fan. I believe it's most people's default attitude to see oneself as a whole, level individual. I don't have that luxury. My head is brimming with thoughts of how flawed, how ugly and how miserable of a person I am. On some level, I want to believe them, 'cause it would make the game that much easier: if I am that terrible of a person, then all the bad signs I see are correct and there's no need to interpret them. Then I'm an asshole, truly and sincerely. Then I'm useless, in the most basic, existential sort of way. So when shit hits the fan, suicide is on the list. It's a way out of all the shit I've accumulated through no fault of my own. I want to make things better, but there's layers upon layers of fuckedness that I need to unfold first. But... I have maybe a week's worth of food stacked around the house. I have a bit more than 200 rubles - about $3.5 - to my name. I have no job, no savings, no rainy-day bank accounts and no one to ask for money from. I could do freelance jobs online to get the money I need, but the fear of failure and the anxiety are so severe that all I can afford to do is play videogames because at least there I can achieve something. I need professional help pronto but I can't afford it. And out of ten people I've met IRL during the year I've been missing, the only friend I thought I'd made is being pissy with me 'cause I'm "unwelcoming", which doesn't fucking help my mental state one bit. Just yesterday, I was reminded by a good gal how I royally fucked the opportunity to ever be friends with her, in the sweetest way possible... ...and there's not a single person I can talk to. So yeah, I'm a little off right now. This isn't square-one shithead-TFG: I'm off the table, on the floor, and the floor is crumbling. Tell me about the feeling of belonging that I'm missing once again, motherfucker.
Where do you get the gall to come at me for being a dick then call someone a motherfucker for failing to respect your suffering? Life is not a game where the most pain is rewarded. Sorry you're having a bad time but life is not a suffering contest. I'm in bad shape. That's my cross to bear. Everyone has problems and they're important to them because they are their own. Me being homeless for two months is no less important than someone else failing to get a promotion. And I understand that. Because I don't whine about my self importance to seek sympathy Is there a Russian word for laconic BTW? Because I'm tired of your verbose explanations
I rarely know what you're talking about. It gets weird when you think you can school me on usage and grammar. If you understand your problems are your own then deal with them with quiet dignity instead of using them as an excuse to name call and be generally unpleasant
My problem is not with you. My problem is with something you did. Don't make it about your indignation. I offered you my compassion in the best shape it presents itself. You blew it off. There's no dignity in quiet. No bravery in suffering so that no one could see. That way, your burden becomes burden for others. It's how you find yourself talking to an Internet stranger you have no respect for about how they're insufferable and should crawl back into the hole they came from 'cause nothing good ever comes out of their mouth.
What I said was "You're being a dick". I can go into the intricacies of the English grammar and tell you that tense aspects used matter a great deal ("you are X" vs. "you're being X"), but you're not the one for "useless pedantry", are you? I pointed out what I saw as a blatantly disrespectful comment with the most straightforward way I could think of. I could've sassed you. I could've said nothing. Instead, I chose to be honest and compassionate with you. You are a function of the shit you're going through, and I pointed out as much to let you know that I don't think of you as a flawed human being. I think of you as someone who's making a mistake by saying something so properly fucked. I said as much in the most concise way I could think of. You went into defensive because of that. I understand. But I don't like bullshit. I even have a separate rule for not having any in my life. I'm not the guy to follow rules and regulations - and I have a rule for that. I'd rather call you out for acting like a dick to a fellow Hubskier, and I'd rather you do the same if you see me doing it. At least that way, we aren't stuck in the fog.
I feel sharing makes more sense for posts than for comments, since comments usually need context to be valuable. There are very few comments I find that I feel deserve to show up context-less in the chatter feed of those following me. So maybe two buttons isn't a bad idea; one for sharing the comment with your followers, and one just for affecting the order of comments in the comment section.
On the other hand, you can often find interesting threads through those shared comments. The 'parent' link is there for this exact reason. To use my own browsing habits as an example: I'm filtering almost every tag directly related to politics (and quite a few other topics, like brands). They are oversaturated and mostly orbit around same thing ad nauseam. But despite that, the responses those threads sometimes generate can range from hilarious to insightful (sometimes both) and tend to be of better quality than the OP.
I agreed up until your example. doesn't necessarily follow from Very simply: I have no problem with that. MK's comment is worth reading-- it's funny! In the same way, flac's Pubski comment about being engaged is worth reading, not because it's "super seriously intellectual valuable content that stands on its own," but because in the context of the site, where a lot of us care about flac, we want to say to other users, "hey! Check it out, flac got engaged!" So of course his comment has a full hubwheel and a couple badges.Something that stands on its own, and is a valuable post in and of itself
"HEY EVERYONE! This is something everyone should read!!"
MK's comment is funny, so 5 people clicked the hubwheel. Which means that now "pics or it didn't happen" is classified as a "comment that's worth reading" on hubski.
I find people are quite mean with something that takes nothing more than the click of a mouse or a tap on a screen. I uphub almost everything I read on this site, regardless of whether or not I agree with it.
Ah. Meanness was not the intent. Just thinking about the use of the site from a database perspective, and how the tools have been developed to perform certain classification functions. No punishment or finger-pointing was intended. Just a hope for a conversation on what kind of tools and data we have here, and how to make the best use of them.
who is trying to gain data from this site and why ??? seriously i didn't think we were trying to gain ad revenues users never use a system as intended deal if you are trying to find a site and say "this site reflects intelligent honest discussion and you can tell by the upvotes" then i suggest you not find a site that kind of fits that hypothesis and then harangue the userbase in the hopes that the site becomes closer to what you want your study results to say
And yet another utterly bizarre interpretation of an innocuous comment from refugee... weird. What are you reading into my posts, that simply isn't there? The only way ANY of us find/see content on this site, is by using the tools that are provided to us... chatter, global, tags, etc. If we apply some diligence and thought to how we tag our posts and use the hubwheel, then the excellent content on this site rises to the top, and we have an easier time finding and engaging with it. Where the fuck did I say anything about ad revenues?!? What the hell...?!?
Oh goobs I take your post as being hostile! When I said "mean" I meant in the sense of frugality rather than dickishness; I should probably have used another word.
Agreed. I also think it's important to post things that you disagree with from time to time. Addendum: To be more specific, I agree that the hubwheel isn't a like button. It's whatever you think it is, which is the intent. I'm a big fan of ambiguity. We all know that it shares that content with those that follow you, and hopefully that is of consequence. Some of my favorite posts start with few shares, but the post then spurs a good conversation, which then induces people to reluctantly share it.
Good context! I appreciate the thoughts. I was honestly thinking about it from a data perspective. Imagine if we had both an Upvote and a Share button, for example. The upvote has no mojo with it. It's just a way to say, Yeah! or Right on! or Thanks for the conversation! While the Share button would be "hey everyone, this is super fascinating, and everyone that follows these tags, this post, or this person, should read it!" A couple weeks ago we had an interesting sub-thread in another conversation about what the hubwheel is "for", and I had the distinct feeling that people agreed it was not an Upvote, it was a Share. Judging from the amount of butthurt on this post, I'd say people have changed their minds!! :-)
I've paused more than once trying to decide if I was going to circledot a comment or a post, and working through the rationale of doing so. That doesn't happen with likes. I'd argue that the approve/like/share tension actually promotes thoughtfulness of interaction. Of course, this is the internet, so consequence is always both great and small, but the fact that we feel some is probably not a bad thing. I would expect a separate like button to moslty encourage mindless exercise. Funny thing, if I make a trite comment that is heavily spoked, I feel a bit guilty, and a solid contribution feels like atonement.
I have that same pause, and - with some insight gained from refugee's comments on my thoughts - I have made the decision to ONLY use the hubwheel to push a post to greater visibility, and go with an "I agree" comment, if I just wanna recognize a good point, but the point doesn't have standalone value outside the thread. It's so interesting to see how people use tools, when there is no manual...
Used the community tag so this shows up for new users when browsing #newtohubski.
Thanks! Good idea. I'm still weak on the whole tagging thing... I just make up shit and type it into the Tags field, like a random hashtag generator. I should know the "popular" tags and use them properly. That'd shore up my "data structure is important!" stance, as well.
Let's not see a third time, ok? sincerely, (someone who upspoked your example and has over 1k days more logged on hubski than you do -- not that this makes me an authority in any way, but perhaps it makes you seem like a yung whippersnapper) BTW, when was the last meet up you went to? Maybe if you were a person who had been to multiple hubski meet-ups and participated in the posts that generate during them/afterwards, you would understand more why there was some enthusiasm towards MK's request.
So your example is a post of MK's requesting photos, right? And if you click through you realize the context is he wants photos of an upcoming hubski meetup (which has now happened) I think that maybe photos are a really fun part of Hubski meet-ups but also an element highly likely to fall by the wayside until requested/attendees are reminded that other hubski members might appreciate them. idk did you check out the meet up thread doesn't look like you shared it, so maybe it's not something that's important enugh to you to upspoke anyway, 3 out of the 5 people who upspoked mk's "pics or it didn't happen" comment ... were at that meet up. that mk's requesting photo 'evidence' of. and the other 2 are close friends with people who went. Your example of bad upspoking is that 5 people agreed with MK requesting photos of a meet-up. without any consideration of who those people were and why they might think that comment's a cool af hubski post to read Like, idk, what verbiage am i missing here to complete the circle you don't think it's important because it didn't touch your life but for at least 5 people on hubski it literally actually did. our physical real af actual tangible lives not our fake ass virtual ones you can see here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ how do you feel about your example at this point??? i'm sorry that comment wasn't interesting enough for you to read as a stranger scrolling through a list of "5 or more upspoked comments" on the internet whom i've never met ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and now i'll stop here.
Ah. Gotcha. I see where we got cross-wise. As a database developer, I was thinking about the upspoking as a way to bring content to light to people who might not otherwise see it. You know, helping good content show up in chatter, etc., because it has been deemed of general interest to a wider audience. I was thinking of upspoking as an invitation to the larger audience to participate/read content that they might not otherwise see. I get your angle on it too, but I think your use of the hubwheel is more of the Reddit/Facebook Upvote/Like use... you are giving an "atta-boy" to the poster for their participation in a specific thread. From my perspective, I look at each post and comment as an empirical thing in and of itself. And then I think, "Is this interesting to a larger audience? Do more people need to see this?" If my answer is Yes, then I click the hubwheel. On the other hand, if - like you promote - the intent is to thank/recognize a good comment/post, I'll instead make a comment to that effect. That feeds the need to recognize someone for their participation, without peeing in the larger pool of data, and potentially burying "good/interesting" content from being seen by others. Thanks for digging into this with me. It just helps reinforce my initial thoughts, and makes my post even more relevant. anyway, 3 out of the 5 people who upspoked mk's "pics or it didn't happen" comment ... were at that meet up. that mk's requesting photo 'evidence' of. and the other 2 are close friends with people who went.
It does the same. If I spoked your comment people who follow me and don't follow you, will see it in their comment feed (chatter) regardless. Click the "1 shared" on your post (or anyone else's). You'll see people who shared and by whom it was shared with you.
Tricky one, isn't it? If you frame yourself as an antihero, notoriety is fame. When Elliott Ness referred to Capone's notoriety, he was arguing that Capone was an infamously bad dude. But if you viewed Elliott Ness as the bad guy, notoriety is dope. I mean- But I also think that the meaning was diluted a long, long time ago because
Depends on your perspective. I try to be very precise with my speech. I value it. Not being precise makes me cringe. I can see the layers of meaning that, for me, need to be distinguished and operated upon separately. Most people don't see it that way, which is how you get "pedantic" as an insult. I really don't know it is that makes such high precision to be so distressing. I wish I did. My only theory is that higher-level precision is overexposure to most people, in the same way too much light hurts our eyes - but I have no clue how close that is to reality.